Several years ago I conducted a fairly lengthy inter with author James Redfield of Celestine Prophecy fame. Our discussion went through each of his INSIGHTS as they led up to his soon to be released book, THE TWELFTH INSIGHT. Our conversation borders on prophecy, when you consider that the interview was conducted in 2008. I will post the interview in parts as it was fairly lengthy.
PHIL: The Celestine Prophecy, I remember reading it a number of years back, and a number of the follow ups, jeez what do you have now, twelve, fifteen books? You’ve got the Celestine Prophecy, you have Ten of Insights, Shambala, Celestine Vision, you have a book out with Murphy, God’s Evolving Universe.
JAMES: Well, there are three books in the Celestine series, I’m working on the fourth and last book there so, you know that’s what’s occupying my time now, and it’s very exciting. I’m chronicling what I call insights, but I really think of them as sort of grand “ahahs,” big steps in a kind of archetypal awakening of humanity, and I believe there are twelve of them, and the twelfth one is out there now so. And it’s as you might imagine, the integration fully, of all the insights in to something we can live everyday.
PHIL: Oh absolutely, and anybody who wants to check this out, go to www.celestinevision.com. What I want to do is to go through the insights. I mean we could probably talk all evening and into the night, just on one alone, but I’d like to try to go through the eleven, at least to refresh people’s memories as to what they are. I’m sure since you first wrote them, even in your own mind, there’s been a little bit of an evolution between the first book and where you are now. The first insight is called A Critical Mass, “a new spiritual awakening is occurring in human culture. An awakening brought about by a critical math of individuals who’ve experienced their lives as a spiritual unfolding. A journey in which we are led forward but mysterious coincidences.” Why do you feel at this point that we are at the height of a spiritual awakening, for humanity as a whole?
JAMES: If you look at all the polls, forget the news headlines and if you look at all the polls what you see is in greater and greater numbers are people awakening to a spirituality that’s personal. That’s what they say they’re discovering in polls and it’s crossing all religious persuasions. It’s happening everywhere. You know, there’s a kind of very negative news chatter right now about this war and big polarizations we’re having in terms of religion that are seeking to impose themselves on everybody. But you know that’s just a hurdle, one of the hurdles. And that’s really what the twelfth insight is about, getting over, getting past that challenge, as we proceed with our spiritual evolution.
PHIL: Do you think there is any kind of correlation between the number of people who are leaving the church and the rise in a more personal spiritual endeavor?
JAMES: You know, I don’t, I don’t really think so, I mean there are movements everywhere now, it used to be everybody leaving organized religion, then there’s big waves, some years, and people going back to the more structured spiritual path within one of the religious traditions. But I mean, I believe it’s just happening everywhere, it’s not what you might classify as new age thoughts, but if you look for general expression, a positive expression of the search for an individual and experiential spirituality. That’s continuing to occur out there. And you know, it’s inevitable, and the reason the first insight is such a great reminder is it’s a place where it all began. Because once you realize, once you tune in to the fact that there is a mechanism in the world that brings opportunities to us, brings great adventures to us; once you see and experience that, then your mind can’t get afraid and go back to those mysterious and meaningful coincidences and say they aren’t real. Once that kernel pops, there’s no way you go back to thinking that life is about a kind of materialistic routine that you thought before. And yeah we’ve had that critical mass, the first insight’s critical mass has already happened. Even the people that swear to be materialists, and atheists, and see no meaning to the universe, even they know there is something missing in their lives, and they keep trying to fill it with you know, games and toys, but it just doesn’t work. Until you really start to acknowledge the flow fully, and start to get into the journey of it you know you’re not satisfied in life.
PHIL: I think there’s no doubt that there’s a lot more questioning going on than there has been in a while. And until we start asking questions and demanding answers, it’s hard to put a lid on that, it takes on a life of its own.
JAMES: Absolutely, and that’s been going on for some time now and you know, forget politics, forget the trends that the news and media talk about, that’s not the important trend that’s happening out there.
PHIL: The second insight is The Longer Now. “This awakening represents the creation of a new, more complete world view, which replaces a 500 year-old preoccupation with secular survival and comfort”. Now interestingly enough, I’m sure detractors out there would be saying whoa, whoa wait a minute, people taking a larger world view? Everything that’s happening and all these little hot spots around the world, everybody is just getting more selfish, nationalism is on the rise, look at the Balkans, Tibet, the Middle East and everybody wants a little piece of the pie. How do you figure that, there’s a growing world view out there?
JAMES: Well because what you just described is the result of the need for something more. People are becoming more selfish because they can’t accept the ordinary life any more. People are wanting to find meaning in nationalism because they are seeking something new and energized and you know, these trends go back and forth, and round and round. But what’s important is that more and more people understand that there is a deeper spiritual consciousness available and if, if you really look at it, and you really get the second insight, you realize that it’s a matter of historical inevitability. In other words, we are evolving our consciousness, we realize we have been asleep in some kind of scientific materialism, and we are now breaking through to something more complete. You know, there’s nothing the rational life was important and we had to establish that. We had to train our minds to think more rationally, but now that rationality is not grounded anymore, because what we really want to rationalize is how to live the spiritual life more fully.
We are turning those powers on so we are investigating scientifically, and thinking logically about how to live this greater spiritual flow, this synchronistic flow that is inevitable. The second insight is important to keep in mind because it’s one of the steps to staying conscious; you have to realize where we are in long term history, in the history of thought. We’re breaking through a very confined rationality, and now we are looking at deeper phenomena out there, the spiritual life that we can apply, this sort of consensus building, and rational consensus so that we can institute it in the world, which is where we are now.
PHIL: What is phenomenal, is, with respect to the age of technology and communication we have going on, is that I can sit here in Summerville, Maine and be talking to a person in China as to what’s going on in their life and what they’re doing. So the ability to become aware of what is occurring around the world is almost instantaneous. It’s incredible.
JAMES: No doubt about that. And you know, it’s contagious, the whole thing, consciousness, a higher consciousness is contagious. And you can kind of stay half asleep until you run in to some who’s not. Then what you see is this greater consciousness that becomes a model of exactly what it is you know in your heart is missing. So you know nothing can be better than that that sort of intermingling consciousness in the world.
PHIL: The third insight deals with matter and energy. “We are now experiencing that we live not in a material universe, but in a universe of dynamic energy. Everything extant is a field of sacred energy that we can sense and intuit. Moreover, we humans can project our energy by focusing our attention in the desired direction... where attention goes, energy flow… influencing other energy systems, and increasing the case of coincidences in our lives.” I would have to say, James that there is no question what is happening in the field of physics; all those people that say, “Well prove it, prove it, prove it,” and in a way it’s all coming out now. There is a basis, there is a scientific basis to all of this that’s going on and the whole quantum physics thing to me is just mind blowing.
JAMES: Well I think it is and you know, what it really feels like, and the way we’re experiencing it, is that we are tuned in to this universe that we are in. What we think is material is beautiful, if we look at the tree it’s beautiful, and it’s hard when we touch it but it’s really just an energy field. And the more energy that we can find within ourselves, the more energy that we can apply in this world, and give into this universe, the more we give in, more we get back. You know what I mean? That is the law of attraction. You know the more we give energy and attention, the more we get back from the universe in the direction that we’re trying to unhitch from its point.
PHIL: You constantly see new reports and new studies saying hey you know it’s what you think that counts.
JAMES: I was just going to say that that’s the third insight phenomena, when we see all these books on physics and how the universe really does respond, that’s part of the working out of this insight’s awakening that’s still churning out there.
PHIL: Absolutely, and like I said, it’s absolutely phenomenal what is being discovered. Science is getting so close to coming up with their unified theory, and I think they’re almost afraid to make the next quantum leap. Where they will have to go with some of this information is hard to say, but I guess they will have to wrestle with their own consciousness to see where they take all this.
JAMES: Yeah, well at the end of the show we can talk about science. You know unfortunately, parts of science and parts of the news media and politicians in general are going to be the last to get it, they are going to wait until the people have instituted it in their mind. And, once we get it, then the politicians and the news people, and the scientists will start to study it and talk about it.
PHIL: Oh there’s no question that the institutions, whether it be the medical associations, or religious organizations, they are so entrenched and they are so concerned with maintaining their own validity in the world that they will certainly resist. But, what I like in the world is the voices that are cropping up with the direction. And you know, I think you’re seeing more and more people, more books and things like that from people who have the credentials and they are saying, “Hey, this whole energy thing, there’s really something to it, the universe is all energy we are all interconnected, the mind does have power, there is power behind thought, the way you feel, your health and so forth, is effected by this.” I mean it’s becoming main stream, and it’s just nice to see that.
JAMES: I think so but it’s certainly not main stream. I mean it’s in the process of becoming main stream now; the twelfth insight is integrating in to everything. And you know, this kind of constriction of economics you see around the world, beginning around the world right now, is just kind of going to give us enough pause so that that institutionalization can happen, you know?
STAY TUNED FOR PART II